[osg-users] Getting an OSG/VPB build running on Fedora Core 7

Jeremy L. Moles jeremy at emperorlinux.com
Thu Oct 25 10:43:01 PDT 2007

On Thu, 2007-10-25 at 16:53 +0100, Robert Osfield wrote:
> On 10/25/07, Jeremy L. Moles <jeremy at emperorlinux.com> wrote:
> > > Should I just give up with Fedora and head back to Kubuntu on this machine?
> >
> > No! :) Fedora is a great distro, and like we tell all of our customers,
> > when comparing Fedora vs. Ubuntu the one thing I always keep coming back
> > to is that above all Fedora makes "technically sound" decisions.
> Umm... this implies that Kubuntu is made with "technically unsound"
> decisions.  Sorry by this type of statement really makes me think of
> sales speak.

Sales speak? Nothing of the sort. In a general sense, Ubuntu will do
whatever is necessary for the user to "perceive" that something is
working as intended, even if it means implementing a horrible kludge
that does not address the problem at it's core. This isn't bad, per se,
but it's not something Fedora will do. As a recent example, Ubuntu
compiles hald _without_ support for IBM or Toshiba laptops. I'm sure
they have some rationale for this, but to me personally this is most
certainly NOT technically sound, and creates a great deal of extra--and
wholly unnecessary--work. I wish I could think of more examples to
support my case, but they elude me at the moment.

Don't get me wrong: Ubuntu is taking over. I have every confidence they
will continue to grow in popularity, and I see this as our customer's
interests in Ubuntu increase every month. I've just always had very bad
luck with it, similar to how you're having with Fedora. :) Fedora on the
other hand has always treated me well, and even looks better on the eyes
(at least in Gnome)!

> My experience so far is Kubuntu works out the box far better, and
> doesn't have the errors in the packaging that Fedora has.  The menu
> layout is more logical, it boots and run faster.  The packaging system
> is way way faster.  So Fedora might be "good" from your perspective,
> but Kubuntu so far scores better from my experience at this end.

In my very humble opinion, there's no way DEB packages (or their wrapper
in the form of "apt") are better than the RPM/Yum equivalents. :) DEB
packages are a nightmare to build and manage, and apt repositories are
clunky at best. RPM's use a single, easy-to-understand specfile format,
and Yum repositories couldn't be easier to manipulate and understand.
Yum itself--besides being written in Python, which is great--also
provides a very versatile plugin system. In terms of speed, Fedora 7 has
made a number of improvement to Yum, and if everything is working
correctly there's really no major difference between it and apt as far
as execution time from start to finish is concerned.

Ubuntu certainly WOULD boot faster though, since they are developing an
init system which attempts to once-and-for-all solve the issue of
parallel init in Linux. I can't really refute that aspect of it being
superior. :)

> > Now, that isn't to say that Ubuntu isn't "easier" out of the box--it is.
> > It's just that Fedora, personally, is a much better system for
> > developers.
> Curious what aspects makes it better?  Are there essential packages
> not available under Ubuntu/Kubuntu that are available under Fedora?
> If so I haven't missed them so far.

Fedora tends to always be the first big distro to introduce the latest
versions of developer tools, and doesn't divorce their development
headers into 1700 different packages when 99% of users end up getting
them all anyways. Ubuntu has a habit of exposing multiple versions of
the same piece of software, and it can sometimes be difficult to know
what you have, what you need, how to get it, and how go get rid of what
you don't.

> > I don't have any experience with KDE (I use Gnome, and so do our other
> > technicians), but we sell a good number of 64bit Fedora 6's and 7's to
> > customers every month who use KDE. Trust me, we know IMMEDIATELY if
> > something goes wrong. :) *grin*
> >
> > When you run:
> >
> >         # yum install gcc gcc-g++
> >
> > ...from a konsole, what kind of errors are you getting?
> Error: No Package Matching glibc.i686.

Wow, that's weird. Perhaps a:

	# yum clean all
	# yum makecache

...might readjust something somewhere, if you haven't already
uninstalled Fedora and moved back to Ubu. :) You may also find some
glaring obvious option in /etc/yum.conf, but it's unlikely.

(BTW: I just booted into KDE in a Fedora 7/64bit machine here and it's
pretty horrendously ugly. Kubuntu seems to be a bit stronger as far as
KDE is visually concerned, but I can't really imagine why you're having
the other, low-level troubles...)

> This is on x86_64 machine/install so I'd guess that the package
> definitions or repository is screwed somewhere.
> Robert.
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